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Street Organ Help

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Re: Street Organ Help

Postby KMoffett » Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:33 pm

windmillnut wrote:Well I wired up circuit. It looks pretty good for a mad scientist. I have a question about the power source. I did something I should not have done I guess. I took a 12 volt lighted switch and a car turn signal light and connected them to a car battery. I fried the stranded wire that I used to create the circuit to test just the light!


My guess is you just shorted the switch across the battery. Wired correctly, the 18ga wire would handle the current for a turn signal lamp.

With any luck the blue smoke will settle in the basement before the wife notices.

I have not powered up the circuit I made. I will post some pictures once my camera gets recharged.

In order to test the circuit what power source should I use? I wanted to use the car battery I am going to power the radio with. I fried the 18 gauge stranded wire I intended to use so I wonder if a lower gauge single conductor wire would have been better.

If everything is wired correctly, the car battery is an OK power source. My circuit will easily run with 22 Ga. wire. For the switched contacts on the relay, 18Ga. will work for the turn lamp.

Happy to look at it before you apply power again. ;)

Ken
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Re: Street Organ Help

Postby windmillnut » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:44 am

Well attached is a picture of what I have.
img234.jpg
img234.jpg (543.17 KiB) Viewed 36370 times


What I learned from the radio tech is that if I keep power to the yellow fused wire from the radio the radio will keep its memory. What I have to do is switch the power on and off to the red accessories wire. That is the wire that provides power when a car key is in the accessory or on position. Doing that will allow the CD to begin playing again from where it left off when the power is restored to the red wire. All hail the red wire!!!

Now my questions. I added a 12 volt switch between the battery and the circuit as a master off switch. Should I have a fuse between the switch and the battery to protect the circuit? I learned enough from my first test not to like burning wire.
Should the lever switch be updated to a 15 or 20 amp switch? They appear to be more durable than the little switch I have now.
I also do not think I have the relay wired correctly at all or have a good understanding of how it works. When I look online people seem to wire up the relays a little different every time to match what they are trying to accomplish.

My other question is what is to be done with the negative terminal of the battery. With my limited knowledge I always thought a circuit had to be completed either to ground or back to the negative terminal. My ignorance is showing now. :oops:
I also have some other news. A friend had a old radio cabinet that I think will work for the organ. I gave him lunch and now I have a small cabinet that I just have to modify a little for the organ. I think it will look great painted red with gold trim! It was a non working parts radio so I do not feel bad about re purposing it.

radio-008.jpg
radio-008.jpg (8.06 KiB) Viewed 36370 times


Thanks for your help again.
Brian
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Re: Street Organ Help

Postby KMoffett » Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:35 pm

Good score!Nice cabinet Brian.
1. Do you want the upper toggle switch to be lighted when ON? Same question for the lower one if it's also the lighted type
2. Do you care if the radio loses its memory when you turn the upper toggle switch (main power) OFF.
3. The upper toggle switch should be able to handle the radio current. Do you have a spec for that, like a recommended fuse rating? I'm guessing that a 20A switch is OK.
4. The lower toggle switch can be any one that is rated for 200mA or greater.
5. Your schematic is getting closer. I'll try to redo it, with corrections, today.

Ken
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Re: Street Organ Help

Postby windmillnut » Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:30 pm

Hi Ken
1. They are both the lighted kind. I am going to switch them both out for regular 20A toggle switches without lights.
2. It would be fine with me if the radio loses memory when the main switch flicked off.
3. The upper switch has a 20A rating so I was thinking a 20A fuse would be used.
4. Bigger is better. Plus it will look better to have the same switches.

Thank you,
Brian

P.S. I am off to the pawn shop on the way home from work to see if I can pick up a cheap radio. Something around 15 to 20 bucks should be possible.
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Re: Street Organ Help

Postby KMoffett » Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:56 pm

OK, here is what I see. Note the the wires for the timer circuit (small wires), and wires to the relay contacts and radio (heavy wires) as brought back separately to the power switch and the battery negative...not daisy chained.

Ken
Attachments
Street Organ2.jpg
Street Organ2.jpg (96.14 KiB) Viewed 36365 times
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Re: Street Organ Help

Postby windmillnut » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:35 pm

Ken,
I can wire that, but I have one question or two though as usual.

I intend to use 22 gauge solid wire for the small wire shown in the picture. What gauge should the heavy wire be?

The yellow lead from the radio should have constant power except when the main switch is flicked off and only the current to the red radio wire should be controlled by the circuit. If I connect the yellow to the red at the back of the radio then both would be controlled by the relay and when I stop cranking both yellow and red would lose power. Do I have that right?
Brian
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Re: Street Organ Help

Postby KMoffett » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:44 pm

If the radio comes with a wiring harness use that size wire. Otherwise see if you can find the current draw for the radio.
Right on the memory wire. It should have gone to pin "87" on the relay.

Ken
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Re: Street Organ Help

Postby windmillnut » Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:57 am

Hello Ken,

I ordered a more robust lever switch and a couple of heavy duty toggle switches for the project. They should be here next week. I did however pick up a piece for the organ this weekend. I stopped at a local antique piano store and they gave me a deal on a part of a broken victrola. It will mount under a new top shelf in the cabinet and poke out the side. It saves me the trouble of making the crank mechanism. The handle is a little bent. The best thing is that it has a catch so a person can only crank in one direction and it has a long shaft that I can mount a type of finger to so it will activate the switch. Where to find that finger thingy now?

machine-0012.jpg
machine-0012.jpg (4.01 KiB) Viewed 36330 times


Regards,
Brian
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Re: Street Organ Help

Postby windmillnut » Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:30 am

Well I built my breadboard radio based on the last schematic. I used 16 gauge stranded wire, but found out I could use 18 gauge based on the wire coming out of the radio. When I rebuild it again I will use 18 gauge stranded and 22 single strand wire. Well here it is with a $9 pawn shop radio and a $1 tweeter.

004s.jpg
004s.jpg (48.1 KiB) Viewed 36310 times


I have two inline fuses 15 amp one on the yellow constant power to the radio and the other to the master power switch. The master power switch and the override power switch will be exchanged for 20 amp versions. The lever switch is a 5 amp switch now and it will be exchanged for a 20 amp version which is a little stronger.

006s.jpg
006s.jpg (8.07 KiB) Viewed 36310 times


Meet the molested transistor. In the next version it will be wired using the 22 gauge wire.

007s.jpg
007s.jpg (6.89 KiB) Viewed 36310 times


Below is the relay and diode. I have triple checked the connections and all connections have be soldered and wrapped with tape.
008s.jpg
008s.jpg (7 KiB) Viewed 36310 times


I have to get a couple of battery clamps tomorrow and then I will give it a whirl. This time though I will take it out to garage in case I smoke something.
I gauge my odds of success at 50/50. I will be sure and video the first switch on. This should be good!!!!
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Re: Street Organ Help

Postby windmillnut » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:16 am

Well it worked! Thanks again Ken for the schematic. The master on off and the continuous play switches work. The lever switch also works. In order to keep the radio playing the switch must be closed twice a second. I would like to get it to once per second maybe even longer. I have to swap out the 1K resistor now to try and increase the period of time between clicks of the lever switch. OFF to the shack!

Most importantly when the CD starts playing a song again after the level switch was not clicked quick enough the song restarts where it left off!

One thing I did notice is that whenever the radio stops playing the speaker plays four beeps. It must be something with the radio doing it when the power to the accessories wire is turned off. I now have another question. The relay that I am using is a 12 volt auto relay to control the radio. If I want to cut the circuit to the speaker at the same time I do not think I can just link it to the same relay can I? The speaker wire appears to be about 20 gauge. Ken if I need another relay I may need another picture.

Regards and thanks again.

P.S. A video will be forth coming.
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Re: Street Organ Help

Postby KMoffett » Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:02 am

Double the 4.7uF capacitor to 10uF "or" the 100K resistor to 220K to double the on-time. The 1K resistor is just to limit the charging current to the capacitor.

"Most importantly when the CD starts playing a song again after the level switch was not clicked quick enough the song restarts where it left off!"

Not sure I understand that.

On simultaneously switching the power and speakers, it would require another relay (DPST) in parallel with the first one. There may be an audible pop when the speakers are reconnected...but I don't know.

Ken
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Re: Street Organ Help

Postby windmillnut » Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:42 pm

KMoffett wrote:"Most importantly when the CD starts playing a song again after the level switch was not clicked quick enough the song restarts where it left off!" Not sure I understand that.


Sorry sometimes I do not type as good as I should. The radio will be controlled by a crank to simulate a street organ. When you stop cranking a street organ it stops playing and when you begin cranking again the street organ begins the tune again where it stopped. Using this circuit with the relay on the accessories wire on the radio makes it work like a street organ when a CD is being played.

I will pick up a larger resistor and another relay tonight. I will post a new picture of how I wired it up before I power it up.
I also got a 20A lever switch in the mail last night. It is a bit of an overkill, but having a physically larger switch will make it easier to mount it to the crank mechanism.

Thank you,
Brian
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Re: Street Organ Help

Postby windmillnut » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:21 pm

Well last night I made the changes to the circuit to increase the amount of time between pulses and I also added a second relay to cut the signal to the speaker when the power is cut to the radio. This was done because the radio was sending four beeps to the speaker whenever it was shut off.

As promised here is a video of the circuit in action. When I say AC in the video I mean Accessories.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqPj8WVPxps

The next step is to reduce it in size and add the crank mechanism that will close the lever switch every second to keep the radio on.
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Re: Street Organ Help

Postby KMoffett » Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:11 am

Wow! Good job! The original definition of an electronics "breadboard" is alive and well. ;) I noticed that you needed to push the lever switch about 3 times before the MOSFET/relays activated. My bench tests activated on the first push, and the dropout-delay was one second after the last push with the original component values. Seems like you have everything wired correctly. ???

Ken

Thanks for the video and acknowledgement. :)
Last edited by KMoffett on Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Street Organ Help

Postby windmillnut » Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:23 am

I will draw up what I have so far and if you could check it over I would appreciate it. You never know maybe I am just lucky and a short is in my future? I can see the smoke now!
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